Numpty IM Bike Thread

Bike ponces only welcome if they don't speak in tongues

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09/07/2011 at 15:41
oooh! I forgot about this thread!
09/07/2011 at 15:57

Talking about tyres up until a week or so ago I'd been using gatorskins ( flat bit on mine too) changed them for cowman to some schwalbe ones and I can't believe the differance in speed! was expecting them to be a bit harsh too but they're quite comfy as well.

meface    pirate
10/07/2011 at 21:09

OK I have a question.....

How fast should I aim to ride in an IM?

Done two HIMs (Swashbucklet and Cowman) and averaged 20.2 and 20.4mph. Average 70-90 mile training rides are 17mph but on training tyres (25cVittoria  Zaffiros at £7) rather than race tyres (23c Conti 4000S) which I find makes about 1mph difference.

I have used this site to predict times for Windsor Olympic and Cowman and predicted my times very accurately and faster than my own predctions.

However stepping up to IM distance it is suggesting around 5:45 for the 112 miles based on times done at Swashbuckler, Windsor, and Cowman. This is an average of 19.6mph. I was thinking more like 17.5mph.

How do more experienced folks HIM and IM bike times compare?

Meface

11/07/2011 at 10:20
"How fast should I aim to ride in an IM?"

how mashed do you want your legs at the end?? and it depends if your clock chasing or finish chasing.

Outlaw is "relatively" flat so is probably closer in feel to Cowman. I did 2:48 at C'man last w/e and 6 (and a few secs) at Outlaw last year. Outlaw would have been about 10mins quicker if I didn't have a mechanical at the start of lap 3 which required a few stops to try to fix a gear issue - I ended up with 3 gears for the last 40 miles or so.

I would think my legs felt roughly the same after both rides given the distance differences so the effort I put in was probably equal(ish).

I would be more conservative over 180km than 90km so wouldn't ride at 1/2IM pace but not far off (course dependant).

For IMWales, I am expecting it will probably be my slowest IM distance bike - but seeing as the run is tough as well, I want to have something in my legs for that. I'm not chasing a time, just a finish for that one.

my fastest IM bike time is 5:30 but that was flat Florida - I could have gone quicker (I reckon a 5:15 would have been possible) but again didn't want to mash the legs too much doing that.

so adapt your bike time to a) ability, b) course and c) result wanted.

for your 1st IM - just go and enjoy it and aim to finish - don't get too wrapped up in times or you could do your head in!!

11/07/2011 at 10:38

Nice reminder. Promised myself some racey tyres for Outlaw to replace the £8 jobs that the bike was supplied with. Sounds like it'll be worthwhile, so off to Eureka for some pleasure spending! No guilt since I picked up some bargainous bike glasses at Aldi yesterday... spitting image of the 3x lens ones that are about £40 on the bike websites and they fit my swede perfectly.... £3.99 to you Sir! Pack of Parma ham and some swiss cheese while i'm at it.

meface    pirate
11/07/2011 at 11:06
fat buddha wrote (see)
 and it depends if your clock chasing or finish chasing.
for your 1st IM - just go and enjoy it and aim to finish - don't get too wrapped up in times or you could do your head in!!

Certainly intend to enjoy it but trying to pace correctly to avoid both too fast and too slow. I suspect my run will be awful as I am not built for running. Although I have done more running than biking I am just not a runners build.

I sort of planned to be off the bike around 8 hours, 1hr 20 for swim, 10 transition, and 6hr 30 for bike. This gives me the mental comfort of being able to walk home with time to spare. If I manage to run a 4hr 30min marathon (PB=4:07) then I would clock 12.5hrs which is way quicker than I hoped for and a bit quicker than I expect.

Cowman bike was 2hrs 48 so a 6hr ride may be possible and that means 7.5 after the bike and with a 5 hour marathon a 12.5 looks more possible.

Have a history of long distance walking events and used to re-arranging schedule on the go due to unforeseen events such as bad weather, getting mislaid, feet mechanicals. So not putting a schedule together that is rigid but do want to a target for both pcaing and nutrition. Will likely have 3 Plans (A, B and C as X, Y and Z are used for other things).

Certainly intend to go slower if v.hot due to solar dome issues.

Mindset is currently a bit like my 'first' marathon. I had done a dozen ultras before my first road running marathon. Finishing wasn't the issue, I knew I could finish in  6.5 hours walking the whole way and then walk back to the start in about the same time. It was just a case of doing as well as I could. Currently I feel training has gone to plan and although tired and legs ache the 18hr peak week was all done to schedule and paces mostly held up throughout. So I will finish, barring mechanical issue, me or bike.

But based on a survey of 1 it looks like the website prediction may be closer than my own prediction with me over egging the speed degradation and sandbagging as usual. However the website can feck off if it thinks I am running a 4:02 marathon.

Thank you FB

Meface

11/07/2011 at 11:16
I had 5 targets for my first IM (CH in 2005)

1. finish
2. finish in daylight
3. finish in 14 hrs
4. finish in 13:30
5. anything better is a great day out

I had a great day out - 13:09

my swim and bike times were very similar to your plans - my swim was 1:23, bike was 6:30. The run was a bummer at 5:09 (PB just under 4) but it was exceedingly hot - 35C when I started the run - you could see the heat shimmer coming off the tarmac.

at Outlaw I had a swim PB at 1:15, 6hr bike which I thought might have brought a sub 12:30 but the run was shite - finished in 12:54 - but that's my 2nd best IM time so was happy with it.

my IM PB run is 4:54 (Florida again) which goes to show that I probably hammer the bike a bit hard to come up with a decent run.

and like you - I'm not a skinny whippet.

so - go conservatively and just see what the day brings - you might surprise yourself!
11/07/2011 at 11:30
Glad someone asked this. Did Cowman 5.56. 41 swim, 3.11 bike and 1.52 run. I've looked at some of the predictor things and they seem optimistic.
I'd be chuffed with sub 13.
meface    pirate
11/07/2011 at 12:21

FB - Thanks

Looking at those times and having met you (you are taller, better looking etc) I think we are similar in build (not whippets) I may be being very optimistic with a 4hr 30 marathon. Maybe best to plan for a 2ish hr half-marathon and then a 3 hour walk!

D - Keep moving forward for up to 16 hours!

C - Finish sub-14.5 (1:30 / 7:00 / 6:00)

B - Finsih sub-13.5 (1:30 / 6:30 / 5:30 )

A - Finish sub-12.5 (1:30 / 6:00 / 5:00 )

The run will be what it is I suspect.

But the bike I can plan for and pace correctly. Will certainly start off under pace and take the first hill nice and easy. Then start to apply a bit more pace as I get round to the second lap.

Thanks

Meface

Hess.    pirate
11/07/2011 at 13:15

Quick Techy question 

 I have now got a full TT set up for my Planet X

Has anyone on here routed the internal brake cables themselves as I am really struggling to work out how to do this. It must be possible. , and if so could you enlighten the numpty here

 Thanks Hess

Kanga M    pirate
11/07/2011 at 15:24

Meface - clearly know nuffink, but I'd say a 6:30 ride is well in scope given all the other variables. CBA checking all my times, but generally I'd do a sub 3 ride for a HIM, and a sub 6:30 for a full, but managed a 6 and a few seconds at Outlaw last year but it was the easiest IM ride course I've done. A sub 4:30 run sounds pretty optimistic for your first IM, especially if it's not your strong suit. It takes a while for most peeps to get the legs functioning, so your first couple of miles are going to be slower and wobblier that you might like. I've also been running longer than riding, but am less crap on the bike, so was happy with the 5:10 run at Outlaw having come off the bike in dire need of nutrition.


meface    pirate
11/07/2011 at 16:29

Kanga,

Thanks. Not worried about the first couple of miles, just the other 24. I seem to run quicker off the bike than I would normally run. My first 2 miles are normally around 7:45 even in a HIM. Then when the running gets a hold I slow to 9:00 min/mile.

Legs feel odd coming off the bike but I do seem to clip along. Do my best to slow down but never seems to work. Happens in training and racing so don't think it is the excitement of T2 and everyone shouting as there aren't that many supporters in my street. Training rides have been 90+ and at around 17mph average so not that different to race day (except I will have had a long wash first thing).

My 5k and 10k PBs are both done in Triathlons and wasn't that far away from a PB at Cowman for Half Mara (1:55 vs 1:50) which given it was hot I was happy with.

So think start the bike at 6:30 pace and maybe lift to 6:00 towards the 2nd lap if feeling good.

The run is a bit harder and easier - harder to plan and easier as no plan may be the best idea. Slow running is 09:30min/miles, fast running is 08:00 min/miles with not much in between. Did 9:1 Run/Walk at the weekend for 3 hrs and did 19.5 miles. I think that is the plan for race day. I just can't run any slower than 09:30 it is just too much effort to do the running action, I seem to be putting in too much effort for not much forward motion at anything slower

Back-up plan, run/walk 9:1 for a half mara or as far as I can then walk! This should be a 5 hour. Walking pace for the whole thing should be 6:00.  A bit like the 2nd half of a double mara so I know I can walk on tired legs.

The run is what it is and I know I will be hanging on at the end. Just hope the desire and will lets me push on when it is hurting.

Swim is easy - one speed - swim

So the bike is the tricky one for me - balancing too hard and blowing my legs for any sort of run and leaving me only a walk with too slow and wasting time with reserves in the legs I can't make use of on the run. The longer I am out there the harder the day overall gets so need to be efficinet on the bike without blowing up.

I guess this is as close to a wibble you will get from me. Worrying about my plan and trying to use my resources efficiently.

 Thanks Guys

Meface

meface    pirate
11/07/2011 at 16:37

Only other question, if I toss £700 at a set of race wheels what improvement might I see? Bike has Mavic CXP22s which are pretty basic but bomb proof.

Aero? e.g. Planet X 101s 

Lightweight? e.g. Mavic Kyseriums

 Willing to buy speed!

Meface

11/07/2011 at 17:07
HED Jets.......

but if the money doesn't stretch, the PX deep rims

also depends on the rest of the setup though - if you have aerobars and a low position deep rims will help, but if it's a standard sit up and beg bike I'd just go lightweight with the Kysiriums or similar.

you won't get a huge speed gain from deep rims but there is some - again conditions will dictate. if you have strong winds on race day, deep rims can be a 'mare as you're fighting stability so probably lose more speed than you gain as your mind is focused on staying upright! I've nearly been blown off the road in strong gusty crosswinds with my HEDs.

I train on CXP22s but wouldn't race them - too heavy and slow

the best improvement you can get though is a) lose weight and b) get stronger on the bike. woodpecker helmets can also help gain a few minutes over 180Km but don't get one unless you have the rest of the aero gear and can justify it - otherwise you'll get called a cock.

11/07/2011 at 17:13
How much time can be saved by being properly aero if on a normal race bike the pace is about 17-18mph for the same effort?

Does that make sense? :
11/07/2011 at 17:24
perhaps 5kph?

I find when I use my race bike (it's not a TT bike but a custom Ti road bike fettled for tri) then the speed goes up about that much for the same effort versus my training bike and if I go aero. it also has smooth race tyres on which also helps - my race bike has Gatorskins.

but also bear in mind that my shape is the biggest wind braking factor so any gain is good!
11/07/2011 at 17:32
In old money that's nearly 20 mile, that's a lot!
Need to start saving, been looking at Lynskey T230's.
11/07/2011 at 17:44
there are lots of great Ti bikes out there if you search - Lynskey, Van Nicholas, Burls, etc but many fall below the mass market radar. I have an Omega Alchemy - the company is no longer around but the designer/builder is with Enigma Bikes now and they probably have the best range in the UK - very similar setups to my Omega. Their Effusion with the carbon triangle, forks and seatpost is very similar to my Alchemy. (missus has one as well)

Ti ain't cheap but it's going to last a very very long time if you don't trash it.
Edited: 11/07/2011 at 17:46
11/07/2011 at 17:58
I always wanted a Ti mtb but could never justify it. It's the longevity that appeals to me. I'd like one bike to do it all, train and race.
My chain came off a few weeks ago and chipped my chainstay by the BB and I thought I'd wrecked the frame, had it checked and luckily it hadn't.
Convinced me that Ti is the way to go.
The van nicholas blaze is nice too
meface    pirate
11/07/2011 at 20:15

Bike is a Felt ZC frame. Full UHM Carbon frame.

frameset

It is mainly 105 groupset throughout. It was a Z35 but frame got upgraded. So a very nice bike but more sportive comfort than aero racer but does have tri-bars fitted.

Even 1mph at this distance makes a difference 20 mph vs 19mph saves 17 minutes overall. That is like a free 6 miles!

So the frame is worth a better set of wheels. Just whether it is worth it for the time saving, and whether to go lightweight race or aero. I am heavy but ride a bike well, corner well (compared to other triathletes - Cowman saw me give up a few places on some uphill and flat sections and get them back by carring more speed round corners.)

I do seem to be about 20lbs over the weight limit for the HEDs excluding clothing, bottles etc.

Meface

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