Swim training

Horrified at what I'm reading

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18/09/2013 at 16:35

Ok, so as my knees aren't playing ball, I've switched over to swimming goals.  Read about this Dart 10K swim, which sounds like the one to do.  Start lurking on some swim threads.  That's when the knots in the stomach and the blood draining from my face started.

I'm reading about people doing 20, 000+ metres in the pool each week, which is 4K EVERY time they go   Now here's my concern; I was thinking more along the lines of 3 swims a week- 2 shorter ones, tempo, drills, etc.  Then a longer one building up to 3 or 4 Km until the lakes open again.  

Comparing them to me, they're going twice as often and doing more than double the distance when they do go.  Am I not doing enough, or are they just going nuts on mileage?  

I really do want to do this, but not so it's all I ever do, as these forums seem to be suggesting.

 

 

Bouncing Barlist    pirate
18/09/2013 at 16:42

When is the Dart 10k swim, how well do you want to do? complete or have a strong swim.

If youre an ok swimmer at the moment I see no reason why youd not get by on 3 sessions a week, 2 x 45-60 mins (2-3k) 1x 60-90 mins (3-4k).  Youll probably tire towards the end of the Dart 10k but its quite doable.

Are the others approaching it with more focus on their goal (or are scared of something?)  20k a week sounds a hell of a lot for someone just looking to complete?

18/09/2013 at 16:52
Bouncing Barlist wrote (see)

When is the Dart 10k swim, how well do you want to do? complete or have a strong swim.

If youre an ok swimmer at the moment I see no reason why youd not get by on 3 sessions a week, 2 x 45-60 mins (2-3k) 1x 60-90 mins (3-4k).  Youll probably tire towards the end of the Dart 10k but its quite doable.

Are the others approaching it with more focus on their goal (or are scared of something?)  20k a week sounds a hell of a lot for someone just looking to complete?

I've got a year, since the 2013 one only just happened last weekend.  I would love to finish an hour ahead of everyone, then look down at everyone who eventually crosses the line, whilst tutting and calling them peasants for being so slow- but I'll probably settle for completing  I'm a newbie, so haven't a clue what I'm doing.

Does a 3 or 4Km long swim sound enough for now until Mayish next year?

I'm doing my last OW swim this Sunday at Heron lake (assuming they're open).  If anyone's going and would like a nasty end of season ()  coffee with me, let me know.

Bouncing Barlist    pirate
18/09/2013 at 17:00

I suspect 'finishing an hour ahead of everyone' or even mid pack will take at least 20k a week. 

I can (or could) swim 7 minute 400 meters, 1 hour , 4 mins for 3.8k in open water and im know where near a good swimmer.  If you want to get anywhere near being a good swimmer thats sub 6 minute 400 meters and yes 20k+ a week.  Also depends on how well you adapt to technique and you really need to join a swim club to improve to that level.

Like a lot of things youll get our what you put in, if you want to complete 10k (say sub 4 hours) then you can get buy on what I suggested in my first post.  I you want to finish nearer 3 hours (or under 3) this will require a lot more work.

Look at a 10k swim as training for a marathon, in a running sense the people doing 20k+ swimming each week are training for sub 3.30, is that your aspiration in a running sense or do you just want to get round in sub 5 hours (a worthy target for a newbie perhaps).

18/09/2013 at 17:05

Oh wow, I didn't realise it was going to take so long.  Your 400M swim time is nearly a minute quicker than me.  I assumed from looking at Ironman swims, that a bit over an hour for 3.8K would mean 2.5 - 3 hours for me.  4 to 5 hours seems like a seriously long time to be swimming.

I'm going to have to sort something out here!

18/09/2013 at 17:49

faithsdaddy, fear not! I have just completed the dart 10k, and though their timing chip said otherwise I finished in 2;50. My Ironman swim time is 1:06. you will have some assistance from the current, and while I did a fair amount of open water training, I never did more than 3-4 km in a week.

I'm 44 next week, i run,swim or cycle 3-4 times a week and run distance races mainly. My swim technique needs work.

You will have a lovely time and I look forward to seeing you riverside next september. Happy to answer any more questions.

 

18/09/2013 at 17:58

Hey Snap. Why didn't you do a longer longest swim?  It does sound like a wonderful event, which is what attracted me to it in the first place.

Am I on the right track, building up my long swim to about 4Km over winter?

M...eldy    pirate
18/09/2013 at 18:12

Faiths daddy if you are looking at 2.5 to 3hrs for an IM swim then you would not be getting on your bike afterwards

Set some intermediate goals rather then jumping straight in at the long swims, get some technique sessions/lessons, check some swimsets or training plans and look at your goal at christmas

Meldy (the PSOF 400m* swim champion) 






*thats quicker than Barlos by the way 

18/09/2013 at 18:15

I agree that you probably don''t need to do a swim over about 4k.  Maybe do one 6k swim just for piece of mind but do it open water next spring / summer.

More important with swimming is trying out all the other aspects

- Nutrition. Many people struggle to digest food or liquids when face down in the water, so you need to get used to it.  You can do this in the pool over winter so that it is lone less thing to worry about when you get back in ow in the Spring.  For 10k you probably only need a maximum of 1 litre of sports drink, but fnd out which ones suit you.  Use the same ones as you do for running while training in the pool, but look for a lower electrolyte one when you start outside as you don't sweat as much so don't need the salts.

- Work out what kit you are going to wear.  There are some horrible pictures of chafing on facebook at the moment.  Some people swear by rash vests under your wetsuit, but most long distance swimmers think that they cause more problems than they solve.  Vaseline is essential, or you may prefer to use something more expensive such as Bodyglide or coconut oil.  Some people say that Vaseline rots wetsuits but I know lots of people who use it and not one person has thrown their wetsuit out due to Vaseline damage.  Normally they die for some other reason.

This is where your long distance training swims are useful.  You can't work out whether you will chafe from a 1 hour ow session.

That'll probably do for now.  I don't want to swamp you with info.

18/09/2013 at 18:18
M...eldy wrote (see)

Faiths daddy if you are looking at 2.5 to 3hrs for an IM swim then you would not be getting on your bike afterwards

Nooooooooooooooo.  Not that long for an Ironman swim, I meant for the Dart 10K.  I was assuming (based on pure speculation, plus optimism) that I could do an IM swim in an hour-ish.

I did a 7:53 800M, done at a very comfortable pace.  Did a kilometre in the pool last week in a bit under 21 minutes.  Thankfully, my swimming's crap enough that I'm making progress all the time.

18/09/2013 at 18:19

Did, done, did.  My English is the worstlist.

18/09/2013 at 18:21

Hey Caz- I don't suppose you're still in Guildford?

M...eldy    pirate
18/09/2013 at 18:27

Ahh right .. gotcha


and that'll be a 7.53 400m I suspect?  
I think Siggy did about 2.30/2.35 so would be interesting to see what his 400m time is for comparison

18/09/2013 at 18:29

No, 800.  I'm really just that good.  Right, I'm off for a 30 mile run.  Back in a couple of hours.

WildWill    pirate
18/09/2013 at 18:30

From a couple of peeps I've spoke to, thar dart 10k was about 30mins faster than a lake 10k ... 2:30 as opposed to 3hrs

M...eldy    pirate
18/09/2013 at 18:31
Faithsdaddy wrote (see)

No, 800.  I'm really just that good.  Right, I'm off for a 30 mile run.  Back in a couple of hours.

 

 

18/09/2013 at 18:38

Not in Guildford Faithesdaddy, but I drive past that way frequently at weekends

18/09/2013 at 18:57

Let's just say, conditions were very good. I expected to do under 3 hours and I did. Adding 30 minutes? Hmm, not sure the current was that strong.

Anyway, reason I didn't do any long swims is time, really. I live in Worthing and most of my training was done on the coast here. There's often quite a strong drift so I practiced by swimming against that current. Meant I was never very far from my start point and I could just get used to being in the water for long periods and this was all without my wetsuit, so I'm used to the cold.

Luckily I don't ever suffer from chafe, the same way I don't suffer from blisters, and I don't use vaseline or anti-chafe stuff.

What really gave me confidence prior to the swim was completing a 3.5k river swim race without my wettie. I thought, well if I can do that then anything else should be a breeze.

I was really nervous before the swim and had the worst race prep ever. Too anxious to sleep more than two hours, I was on my own so I had to drive myself there. Couldn't park because I was late so dumped the car, ran to registration, got into my wetsuit and we were off.

Got a parking ticket for my trouble.

Look, I'm no expert, but it sounds like you're in exactly the same boat as I was, so I'd say 'don't worry'. you've loads of time and it's not that complicated.

18/09/2013 at 19:00

Wild Will, I think that assistance possibly varies between waves.

18/09/2013 at 19:14

Snap- if you do it next year, give me a shout.  I'll be close to the race in my caravan, so if you'd like to come over for a coffee, etc, before the race, you'll be more than welcome.

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