Swim Tumble Turns

Is it worth learning?

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06/05/2004 at 18:14
I've been swimming for about 4 years now, but haven't yet been up to tumbling. I've had a few goes, but it never amounts to anything.

I mainly race open water triathlons so don't need them for that. However, I think that if I could master them for pool training it might make me feel more of a swimmer (when you're swimming, think like a swimmer, when you're cycling, think like a cyclist type of thing...)

It also might keep the head-up, gossiping breast strokers away from me, as I've noticed that some give 'proper' swimmers a wide bearth, but if you turn without tumbling, they like to wait until you approach then start their length just in front of you and kick you as you go past. (Sorry - rant over - I think there's another thread for this kind of moan! Just don't get me started on people with really long hair who don't wear hats and then loose hair gets caught in your goggles, etc, etc!)

Any advice/opionins on tumbling?

07/05/2004 at 20:26
For Triathlons it isn't worth learning tumble turns as I was told on here a few week ago that you are not allowed to do TTs in Tri's.

To keep the slowpokes away I find it better to show that you are totally inept at TTs, but by thunder you are going to use them. It usually results in them fleeing to the side of the pool to get out of the way.
07/05/2004 at 20:27
Another way to deter them is to literally go over the top of them from your push off.
07/05/2004 at 20:49
unless is says so in the rules of the individual tri concerned i think its normally ok to tumble turn?
07/05/2004 at 20:55
You probably are correct M, but I was lead to believe that it was the other way round. Unless individual event rules state that you CAN use tumble turns then they are outlawed.

I think a search of BTA rules is called for, back later.
07/05/2004 at 21:29
I would be interested in this rule
07/05/2004 at 22:29
I have long hair but do not wear a cap (have no intention of wearing a cap, I simply tie it back and up. I assume/hope you are refering to long haired types who allow their hair to trail about?

How could you employ TTs when swimming in tris? As previously stated I know little about the sport. Are some tris conducted using pools?
07/05/2004 at 23:50
shorter tri's often have a pool swim. i'm doing furzefield tri (potters bar) in 2 weeks time - its got a 750m pool swim.

i don't wear a swim cap either - have long hair thats tied back. mind you i've never ever got someone else's hair caught in my goggles!
08/05/2004 at 00:04
Ahh, sounds like a warmer affair. I assume then that they are much smaller affairs or do you they have a 1000 people punching and kicking each other for a place in the pool? I assume they have the whole pool to swim in and that 4 lanes wont have been sectioned off for post-natal/over 50s swimercise class?

How do they/you keep count of how far you've swum?
10/05/2004 at 07:49
Competitors set off at intervals in lanes roped off, slower swimmers first. You have a person counting the lengths of all the swimmers in their lane, you can have upto around 6 swimmers in the lane at any given time. If you are really lucky, like I was in my first sprint event, you will only get a couple of other swimmers of similar ability so you don't get in each others way.

Some swimmers count how many lengths they have done and look eagerly to the counter when they THINK they should be on the last one. Others will just keep going until signalled by the counter to get out.

The counters will have a sheet with grids for each swimmer in their lane and should tick off every second length (well they can only be at one end of the pool after all), when the swimmer has completed their distance the counter will then let them know. I find chucking peanuts at them soon gets their attention. LOL
Bouncing Barlist    pirate
10/05/2004 at 09:23
I thought some Tri's required you to wear a cap and that was compulsory. Is this not the case, as it seemed to me you had to wear a cap at the Stratford Tri (personally id rather not).
10/05/2004 at 09:55
I'm sure you are allowed to TT in tris! It would seem crazy not to let you.

And swim caps really help...(and most pool tris make you wear one cos it has your number on so that they can count your lengths.)
WildWill    pirate
10/05/2004 at 10:02
Im a fast(ish) swimmer but never use Tumbles

If you were Verrrrrrry good at Tumbles and based on the lenght of pool based Tris (400/500m) you may hope to gain 5-10seconds on your time

But if you are swiming at that intincity you will probably loose that much in transition as you sort your balance out to ride

10/05/2004 at 10:16
TTs can save you 1-2 seconds per turn, I think they are worth doing (if you can do them!) - you usually get a much stronger push off the wall, and less time to "linger" than using a hand-touch turn.
10/05/2004 at 10:22
carl - almost all tri's make you wear a cap. i meant i don't wear one when i'm training.

i will learn to tumble. i will learn to tumble. i will learn to tumble. i will learn to tumble.
10/05/2004 at 10:24
i agree with nic on the 1 to 2 seconds per turn, which over 400m in a 25m pool is 15 - 30 seconds, plus you don't break your rhythm. I'd practice them in training, but not implement them in a race if i were you until i was confident.
WildWill    pirate
10/05/2004 at 10:35
my coach only recond half a second per length and to tell the truth im faster without them - i must be carp at them - LOL
10/05/2004 at 11:50
Our group learnt to do TT about 2 months ago and without doubt if done right they are far quicker than touch turning. Its hard to say by how much as from out of the 12 or so that were taught only 1 (me) has tried to keep doing them and I can only do them for about 6-8 lengths before I am so short of breathe that I cannot do them anymore. So for a 800m swim in a 25m pool (32 lengths) I might gain (say) 8 secs but at a risk of screwing one up and perhaps loosing a couple of seconds and a lot of breathe whilst I descend rapidly towards the bottom of the pool.
In conclusion, I will persist with them mainly because I think its impressive to be able to do them - but in a vast majority of Tris the time benefits will be marginal and in most cases with multiple swimmers in a lane they will have no (or very limited) practical use.
WildWill    pirate
10/05/2004 at 13:56
I find in tri's if i swim the 500 at the speed i swim the 500 in a pure swim race that im much slower on the bike so i normally just swim at a steady pace (about 90-120ses off my 500 pace) so im not realy to fussed when your only in the water for 8 or 9 mins i dont worry
10/05/2004 at 14:12
I think you definately need to be quite good at them to make them worthwhile. But when done to a decent level can be beneficial. As the touch and turn can be significantly longer when someone is pulling into the turn and just touching with their feet as they push off, perhaps underneath others.

Need to get to a level where you don't even think about whether you are going to TT or not, you just do them.

I know when I got back into swimming from a big lay-off, I started back doing one tumble for each 100m, when that felt comfortable, progressed to every 50 and so on. You could even start TT's at every 200m, cutting down every 50, till you get to 25m. Will also help with your timing of the stroke, your breathing and confidence.
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