Tubs or Tubeless tyre questions

I have two questions, I have tubs or tubeless tyres on my bike.

Am I right in thinking

there's no such thing as either tubeless tyre for use on a turbo

and

there's no such thing as a winter tub less tyre?

If I'm right life just got very simple indeed. So far I'm liking tubeless, I can change one pretty easily and no punctures .... yet!

Tubs arent the same as tubeless tyres.

Do you glue your tyres on ? If so then they're tubs.

If not - they're tubeless. 

Unless you're Challenge, who make "open tubulars" just to confuse people! 

(Highly recommended, BTW, if you want a good quality gum wall clincher.)

tubs are complete sealed tubes that you glue to rims, tubeless are open tyres like standard clinchers but don't use inner tubes

and Tufo make clincher tubs just like the Challenge ones

What is a clincher tub or open tubular ?  Just a clincher made out of the same carcass as they make their tubs ?  

I've been using some Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX clinchers which are like that - very  nice - they say  max pressure something like 170psi on them though which clearly they aren't - I'm assuming that refers to the ones that have been sewn up as tubs.   

As an aside people often talk about max pressure for their tyres but plenty of rims aren't rated that high - some carbon rims only to about 120psi.   

OK I glue them (well tape) so tubs .

So these http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycle/road-race-tubular-tyres/

popsider wrote (see)

What is a clincher tub or open tubular ?  Just a clincher made out of the same carcass as they make their tubs ?  

 

Yeah, basically. Same manufacturing process but not sewn up.  I wasn't aware of them till I started hunting for something nice to put on my steel frame pimp-up job.

Tufo have been selling tub clinchers for some years - might get around to trying a pair sometime just to see what they're like.

I guess the big issue is still the same as tubs if you puncture - you need to be carrying a spare one but at least no faffing with glue

if (when?) they really crack tubeless using latex for road use as they have for MTB (the fan base is growing rapidly) then that will be the best compromise as you can run a lighter weight wheel (overall) but in case of major puncture, slap an inner tube in.   on an MTB, tubeless works well and you do notice the lower rotation weight.

So now I have been reminded I still have a LOT to learn back to my original question

Am I right in thinking

there's no such thing as either tub tyre for use on a turbo

and

there's no such thing as a winter tub tyre?

I've only heard of clincher turbo tyres - fine if you have a turbo wheel with a clincher rim, not so fine if you only have tub wheels.   you can of course turbo on your tub tyre but don't know how well it will stand up.

Challenge do a gravel tub - http://www.challengetech.it/products/road/eroica-027/en - which may be better for winter??  

it might be worth you investing in some new clincher wheels for all year/training use and keep the tub wheels for racing.  that way you will have a much wider choice of tyres available including those like Gatorskins which is the choice of many for winter use as it is more puncture proof than many others.

I blummin hate tubs.  Possibly cos I flatted £120 worth in one shortish training ride. 

And these weren't repairable. 

By contrast - I can't tell you the last time i had a p******e on normal tyres. 

I'd try the tub on the turbo and see how it goes - for gods sake dont do a 4 hour session though.  If its wearing too much just buy a cheap wheel and put a turbo tyre on it for your workouts ?

I'd go for normal tyres in winter anyway - Winter tends to be wetter and colder - if you flat and it is peeing down - then you sometimes find that the tub doesnt stick. Or that was my last experience of them one very wet christmas eve... Its no fun rolling a tub.  

And I'd go with thicker tyres for winter just cos I value keeping moving far more than having lighter tyres. 

Ultra cougie wrote (see)

 

And these weren't repairable. 

 

Showing my ignorance here... really?!  So any time you puncture it's end of tyre??  As a youngster back in the 80s  I was running tubs on my racing bike as it seemed to be the thing to do, but it properly pissed me off having to deal with punctures - all that sewing, tub glue over your jeans... so moved on to clinchers when someone drove into the back of my Mavic GP4!

I'm considering getting a TT bike some time in the new year and thought it would be worth getting carbon rims/tubs as I'd accept the puncture risk/performance trade-off.  But how do you know if tubs are repairable or not?  Are most tubs repairable or do people accept them as being an expensive luxury??

I tried to repair tubs a couple of times when I first started - never really worked - think I've still got the vittoria tubular repair kit somewhere.   

You can repair most tubs - if you're nifty with scissors and a needle  - basically you need to unpick the base, cut the stitching, repair the tub like you would an innertube, and the reverse the procedure.  It helps if you're a surgeon. 

BUT i had the tub version of my fave COnti GP4000s.

I sent them off to the tub man to repair (cos i have all the patience and dexterity of a steroid fuelled bull elephant) and he sent me a fantastically detailed explanation of why these couldnt be repaired complete with actual samples and cross sections of tubs that could.   It was quite a work of art. 

I think I've just been unlucky really  - but nowadays normal tyres are so good and so reliable - that I really cant see much point in tubs. I think even the World TT champ Tony Martin rides normal tyres to win.  So if its good enough for him ?

Ultra cougie wrote (see)

 I think even the World TT champ Tony Martin rides normal tyres to win.  So if its good enough for him ?

Good point Cougie!  I might have to chat with Planet X about how flexible they are on their bike-build offers. 

They do some nice CF normal wheels too.  Thats what I've got on my PX. Think I'll have to put it away for the winter soon though. Too purdy to get all cacked up. 

just buy clinchers...it's MUCH easier and if you choose the right tyre/inner tube you can get a very low race rolling resistance and aero-ness (which are what you want right?)

And do you really want to have super high PSIs on an even vaguely bumpy road? on a track yes but on a road?  

once you go down the clincer route then the turbo question becomes superflouous (spelt wrong sorry)

the5k runner wrote (see)

 

And do you really want to have super high PSIs on an even vaguely bumpy road? on a track yes but on a road?  

 

 

No you're definitely right there.  My track bike came with tubs, happy enough with that as it'll never see a road and I can't remember the last time I heard of anyone puncturing at Herne Hill.

There are several reasons you don't see tubular tyres specifically for turbo use, but the most simple is that they're just not suited to the application. They will last as long as a clincher, yeah. But most people don't have a seperate wheel just for their turbo - they swap a turbo tyre onto their rim. Tub fanboys aside (I have race tubs myself and I'm not exactly skilled with them) - the fact is that you don't want to be gluing and ripping off tyres to go between turbo and outdoors.

Can you buy a cheap clincher rim? It would probably be the chepaer option? If you're running carbon tubs, you still wouldn't need to swap your brakes out as you shouldn't be using them!

"But most people don't have a seperate wheel just for their turbo"

some of us do.....