Fell Running - Ultra / Adventure racing

Tom Bombadil

28/08/2003 at 09:16

I've just noticed this new forum.
Does fell running / racing fit under here - it's a bit like adventure racing without the camping.

It's hardly unconventional though, it's those soft southerners that run on the road that are unconventional.

Richard Davies 3

28/08/2003 at 10:49

Well it does now, if we keep the thread going.

The next Fell Race I am aiming for is the Ras Fynydd Fell Race in November. Before that I am doing the Brecon to Merthyr 15 mile Roman Road Run on Sept 6th. Not a real fell race, but ran across the Brecon Beacons anyway.

tom, like you, I don't go too much on road running, and prefer to get off road and into the hills. Living in the heart of the Brecon Beacons that is quite easy. I guess the problem with those "soft southerners", is that they have no real hills to run on.

Scar Runner

28/08/2003 at 11:00

Tom, it does now the three of us agree on it!

Richard, good luck with that, I've only done one official fell race, didn't half hurt!

My plan for next 12 months is doing each section of the Bob Graham plus some fell races to force me to speed up/downhill training.

What are your views on road marathons? To what extent is long distance on the road actually counterproductive for fell running? Thinking of muscle damage and subsequent recovery. Having to do some soul searching about possibly giving up road marathons to concentrate on training for fell.

Tom Bombadil

28/08/2003 at 12:20

How many sections are there to the BGR ? It sounds a horrendous challenge to complete it all within 24 hours - mind you, didn't you recently complete the Welsh 1000m's ?

I've only done one official race too although I do at least 2 fell runs each week. I wasn't too sore after it but I was surprised by just how fast it was. In road races I normally finish just below halfway, but in the fell race I was well down towards the bottom and I must have been one the youngest competitors at 34. There are some seriously fit people out there.

I could hold my own on the flat and overtook quite a few on the descent but I was useless on the ascents. Other than the obvious of running uphills is there any specific training that can be done for the ascents ?

I'm not sure about long distance road training being completely counterproductive since it builds an aerobic endurance base which you most definately need. Marathons are probably a bit too far though, I limit my road runs to under 20 miles. I think the basic problem is that fell running is far harder than road running so for example I might be able to cover 15 miles in 2 hours over hilly roads but on the fells I'd be lucky to do 12 miles in 2 hours.

Anyway, lets keep this thread going my next race is 'Passing Clouds' (BM 9 miles 1800') on the 7th Sept.

Hilly

28/08/2003 at 12:40

richard-could you tell me anything about the Black Mountains races? I think they take place around March time?

I've not run any official fell races, but some of the off road ones I've done could apparently be classified as one and do attract fell runners.

Being a Southern softie mind, this is most probably all I could cope with:o)

Tom Bombadil

28/08/2003 at 12:45

Hilly, I was reading in 'The Fellrunner' about a series of races on the Isle of White. I'm sure there's one in Surrey somewhere aswell.

I'll have a look in the Fixtures booklet when I get home tonight. Where abouts are you ?

fat buddha

28/08/2003 at 12:48

nutters all of you! climbing Aconcagua a few years ago we had a guy from Cumbria who was a fell runner. descent from Camp 2 (6000m) to Camp 1 (5000m) was all scree and he decided to fell run down. in that thin air you should have seen the bugger go!!

Richard Davies 3

28/08/2003 at 13:02

This is a link to a suggested training program for the Bob Graham Round.

www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/bgr/index.htm

As far a general fell racing training goes, it goes without saying that the best way to train for fell racing is to train off road on hills. In addition cycling translates well to fell racing, more so than to road racing, building up quads in a useful way. Also some weight training to build leg strength is useful. For specific hill training sessions, I tend to use longer hills than would be recommended as part of a road racing schedule. I am lucky in that just a few minutes from my house I have a 1 KM lan that goes over a hill. There is a 1 in 7 700 metre section to the top and the other side is 300 metre 1 in 5. Run hard up, jog down the other side, turn round run hard up, jog down, and repeat a few more times.

Hilly, will get info about the Black Mountains races for you, have it at home somewhere.

If starting fell racing it is important to choose the correct race based on its grade, and have the correct kit for the grade of race. More info on the grading system at

www.fellrunner.org.uk along with a calender of events, although not all races are listed.

Richard Davies 3

28/08/2003 at 13:07

Hilly

In fact here is some info about the Balck Mountains from the fellrunner web site

SAT.SEP 27. BLACK MOUNTAINS. AL. Details: John Darby, Garnwen Farm, Trevethin, Pontypool, Gwent, NP4 8TR. Tel: 01495 750491

The AL refers to the fell race grading system A = Difficult, no less than 250ft of climb per mile, not more than 20% on road.
L = over 12 miles.

moor man

28/08/2003 at 13:32

I'm interested in starting fell racing, at the moment I spend most of my running time on the moors, which includes quite a lot of hills with being in east lancs. I stick to running on tracks and paths, do the majority of fell races and runners stick to paths and tracks?

Richard Davies 3

28/08/2003 at 13:42

Hi moor man

Here is some of the info from the leaflet for the next fell race I am doing.

"The lower reaches of the race are run on a mixture of well marked tracks and footpaths, but the open fells are unmarked. The high mountain terrain can be featureless and is susceptible to varied and often adverse weather conditions. Navigation skill smay be necessary"

You are required to carry a map, compass, waterproofs and whistle on a Grade A races. Last fell race I did the visibility was just a few yards, so it would have been easy to go the wrong way.

Hope this helps, but there are usually stewards around to keep you on the straight and narrow.

Richard

moor man

28/08/2003 at 13:53

cheers Richard, going to have my first competitve race at the Weavers Off-Road Half Marathon near Darwen I'm currently running round about 6/7 miles twice a week and slowly building up on the longer runs on a weekend, trying more to spend time on my feet, was out for about hour and a quarter on saturday, but the missus seems to get a bit worried if I'm out too long on the moors. By the way recently got a pair of inov8, well chuffed with them!

Hilly

28/08/2003 at 14:01

Tom-I'm in the S.west, but parents are in S.Wales so get the chance to do races in that area too.

Thanks for the info richard. Sept is no good for me as I'm doing Cardiff marathon on the 28th.

Scar Runner

28/08/2003 at 14:26

This looks like it'll be a good thread. Tom, I was really surprised at how fast the fell race was too; I was OK on the ascents, then everyone came past like demons on the downhill! I've focused on trying to speed up my downhills this year, had lots of surgery on my right leg in the past and that's invariably the one that feels weaker.

Richard, the tip about cycling to boost quads is really useful and much more implementable than going to a gym, for me. I also have a hill right behind my house, 8 mins to the top from my front door, then I can go up and down where I choose. From what you say, longer hill reps are more useful however. Maybe that would help you with the ascents Tom? I've also tried going up fast, coming down fast and having short recovery at the bottom to emulate what actually happens in a race.
I've already printed out most of the BG site! Tom, there are 5 sections based around where the route meets the road. 74 miles/28 000ft ascent approx, as such it's possibly too tough a challenge for me, given lots of very fit people try and fail and the ones I know who have completed have done so after at least 2 attempts.
But I plan to build up experience over next couple of years before deciding whether to commit to training/actual attempt. (a lie, I've already decided. But that's what I'm telling my husband and any other doubter.)

Do you race on the road as well Richard?

Good luck moorman with Darwen, I'd be interested in your report. Feel inspired to look up some local races now.

Richard Davies 3

28/08/2003 at 14:39

I do road race, but not very often, I have run one race this year that was completely on the road, out of a total of 6 races. It was a 5 mile, but it was still a very hilly course. I am coming back after a long lay off after injure, actual broke my neck a few years ago, C6 and C7, and had to have bone grafts and a metal plate to stop my head falling off. Tried to come back too soon and started pulling muscles in my right leg. I have nerve damage to the right side of my body and as a result cannot recruit all my muscles properly when running hard. all a bit of a pain really, but better than not being able to walk at all.

Hilly

28/08/2003 at 15:30

That sounds very bad Richard! Glad things are much better for you!

The closest I'll get to doing a kind of fell run this year is on Oct 26. I'm doing the Stickler, (3 peaks of Dorset) which takes it's inspiration from the 3 peaks of Yorkshire. It's 1500ft of climbing over 3 peaks and also includes the infamous Stickle Path of Shillingstone, which is 500ft of 1:3 climbing.

It's a great race and the weather normally makes it even harder. Ran through floods the last time I did it, where a river had burst its banks. I remember the water being upto my hips!

Richard Davies 3

29/08/2003 at 08:46

Hilly, I find it very fustrating, prior to my accident I was running really well. I was living in the Middle East at the time, in the United Arab Emirates, and was doing good long runs through the desert. That summer I had come back to UK for a holiday, and while in Scotland had run Ben Nevis. One return to UAE had won a 10K road race in 32 mins. A couple of weeks later the accident, now 6 years on the best I have done in a 10 K race is 54 mins, about 5-6 weeks ago.

Hope you have fun and success in the Stickler. Last fell race I competed in was just after a lot of rain. Part of the course was round the side of a lake. After the rain the water in the lake was a lot higher then normal and the path round the lake was complete mud. Had to run through knee deep mud for a couple of Km. Legs were shot before we started up the mountain.

Hilly

29/08/2003 at 09:29

Richard-very sad that you had what sounds like an horrific accident to leave you with broken neck, but you are alive and doing the sport you love again! It doesn't matter that you now run 54 mins for 10k. At least you can say you've ran 32 mins for 10k, not many people can say that! Here's to many more happy running years!!

The Stickler is an event I look forward to every year as there aren't any others like it in this area.

We do have 'The Beast' which is 13-14 miles of multi terrain on coastal paths/stony paths and up cliff sides that's on this weekend and I shall be doing that. It's not a mountain run, but it feels like it when trying to get up hundreds of steps at the side of a cliff. I'd like it to rain for it as every time I've done it, it's been hot. I just love to run in the rain!

Tom Bombadil

29/08/2003 at 10:50

Hilly, I had a look in the fixtures book and there's a race called the Mendip Muddle in October that's down in Somerset.

Moor Man, Have you tried some of the routes around the Trough of Bowland - I did a great one from Chipping (nr Longridge) up to Fair Snape Fell across Saddle Fell and back down to Chipping.

Richard, that sounds an awful accident - good luck with a continued recovery.

moor man

29/08/2003 at 10:51

Richard, its good to hear that you still keep at it, it's too easy to get bogged down feeling sorry for yourself and sort of giving up. I know as I have problems myself, nothing on the scale of yours but I suffer from reactive arthiritus (which also meant a medical discharge from the army)for a few years whilst being diagnosed etc, I stopped exercising completley, went from a lean 10.5 stone up to a quite rotund 13.8 stone! I have since found though with the right diet (mainly organic) and being quite obsessive with training etc I have managed to shift most of the fat, got rid of my depression, keep the flare-ups and pain in joints to a minimum and am now fitter than I have been in a very long time. I also seem to get fewer injuries off road/fell running, by the way can I class my usual runs as fell running? I have a rise from 200m upto 460m over 2.5 miles, albeit on rough track over moorland, total length of run is around 6-7 miles, set off last night on a race against a baking spud! managed to get home within the hour (51:48).