wannabe ultra runner?

share your ambitions/goals/training here on a 'newbie ultra' thread........

7,961 to 7,980 of 8,331 messages
04/05/2014 at 09:30

After all the posts on here, and getting my head into Ultra running into the idea of an ultra, I am unable to train yet again this week with massive pain behind my knee when running.... So depressed about it, looks like my entry into Salisbury 54321 was wasted.....not sure what to do, more physio, more rest...no training....

04/05/2014 at 11:35

Does the physio know what is wrong Dank-art? 

05/05/2014 at 07:30

I did it! Entered Country to Capital yesterday I have another 8 marathons to run this year, the last one being Portsmouth on 21st December so I figured a January ultra shouldn't require that much more training.

What would your suggestion be for distance of the longest training run I should do?

05/05/2014 at 07:45

Dank-art, breathe.  You have time.

05/05/2014 at 08:24

For the Country to Capital, there is no need for your longest training run to necessarily be longer than in a marathon training plan. Just do another run of say 15 miles the day after while your legs are still tired.

05/05/2014 at 09:05

good advice Ben,run on knackered legs

05/05/2014 at 18:43

Dark-art - agree with Peronel hear, B-R-E-A-T-H-E, you have plenty of time to resolve providing you know what the cause/problem is.

05/05/2014 at 18:45

on B2B running, I usually don't set myself a set goal for the run following the long run, more I just head out (if I actually get to do that) and see how the legs feel and go from there. I think otherwise it's easy to ignore signs your legs could be telling you that the previous days long run was quite enough!  Just don't want to overdo things, b2bs can be tricky things if they are new to you. Just my opinion though and I don't do them that often, only if life allows.

05/05/2014 at 23:06

Dank-art- if your salisbury way I highly reccomend ' back on track ' sports physio in andover . I have entered there on crutches before and walked out without them an hour later . They are amazing . I live about an hour away from them now but still travel to see them if injured ( and I'm an nhs professional so I'm very picky ) 

 

you out gave plenty of time to turn this around . Good luck . 

 

05/05/2014 at 23:09

Book trunk - we've spoken on ' the wall'  topic , can't believe it's only 7 weeks away . 

Quick question as you have done this before and I'm a total newbie - yesterday I ran a Mara as a training run and have another in 3 weeks . Would you advise a long , say 20 miler in between ? Did get carried away yesterday and perhaps ran a bit hard , worried re recovery etc . Thanks . 

06/05/2014 at 09:19

I am in Essex so not near Salisbury at all, I haven't been to the physio yet, thought I'd wait a week or two and not run, seem to have a never ending stream of issues since my calf strain 4 weeks before the London Marathon, bit disheartening since I was training correctly and went to the physio immediately to minimise any issues....perhaps I started my training too soon after the LM, 2 weeks after.....anyway if after this week I am ok, leaves me a pitiful 10 weeks, is the really enough to do the 50km Training....why is running so addictive, and why is it so depressing when you can't get out there, (

06/05/2014 at 15:26

MSTH:  if you only have 3 weeks, then ummm err maybe / maybe not  

if you worked really hard then probably not. Maybe go for a huge long walk for time in feet one day. I did a marathon yesterday and it was harder than I wanted did an 8km walk in the evening and a 9km run today.

maybe try to fit a run in tonight and then plan to take the next marathon slower but do a good run the day after.

are you doing any back to back weekends it sounds like your marathon means it's rig in the middle of your training, else I'd say try alternative weeks as back to back? I'm not really that sure myself as before I've only done 50m and think the extra 19 takes a lot more 50m you can do on a Marathon plan I think, 69m few back to back runs or very long days on feet seems important. 

 

Edited: 06/05/2014 at 15:27
06/05/2014 at 18:01

Wow book trunk can't believe your running already after your Mara , which one did you do? I did the neolithic and started out as a LSR replacement as it was hilly and trail and then ended up with a PB which was great but legs still a little tender today ( think my ego was writing cheques my body couldn't cash)  

im doing the wall over 2 days so haven't done the back to backs as I'm a bit injury prone and just want to get to the start in tact . Have you done many B2B ? 

06/05/2014 at 18:12

Dank art - sounds like a bursitis  sometimes referred to as a "bakers cyst'- look on patient uk - knee bursitis . Will give you lots of advice re treatment etc. 

never say never !! 

06/05/2014 at 22:49

This was my first, and I can tell you it was a shock to the system, my legs were dead, they just had no bounce in them at all. I could have gone further but had to go out somewhere but it was slow and bloody hard work.

in all honestly it was a s**t this is hard moment.... felt like I could have walked another marathon, but not a chance in hell I could run more than about 20 miles without it being slower than a walk  

it really worth doing and I'm going to try to get at least 2 more back to backs in before the wall 

06/05/2014 at 22:51

Oh for us not very experienced ultra runners...... Read the TP100 thread, bit of an eye opener....

08/05/2014 at 08:22

Pretty sure it's not knee bursitis as not inflamed or swollen and the pain is at the back of the knee, upper part of the calf  moving across to the right edge of the calf muscle top, also feels very deep inside... kind of locks up if i am sitting at work and then get up, or sleeping and get up, but the pain goes straight away...very odd, but when i was running this became steadily more painful....I'll get a physio appointment next week, in the lake district this weekend too, mountain hiking.... :/

08/05/2014 at 09:26

Is it the knee or is it a calf strain right at the top? can you dig your fingers in or rub it hard with a golf ball or similar and feel a sore spot? a muscle tear is annoying but I always thing a muscle injury isn't as worrying as a knee injury.

I've ended up changing trainers recently from support ones that have got less supporty (have i just invented a new word?) over the last 2 generations, to their more supporty version, that used to be considered to much support, and within a month of running in them my knee problems disappeared.

Knowing me i'll end up getting injured somewhere else as a result

 

Edited: 08/05/2014 at 09:32
08/05/2014 at 13:35

Timings for running an Ultra. 

How do you plan your race pace for an ultra? especially when it's the first time you are doing x distance?

.... (you can just answer that or read below to see the really bizarre reasons i'm asking)

The reason I ask is that i'm doing a new distance and I came up with all sorts of ways of working out how to get to the end in X time. So what I was going to say originally was below, raving on about my plans to do plan 1,2,3, or 4.... But in reality that's not what I want to ask I don't want to ask how do i run my race.  I know that is something for me to decide and get right or wrong But i'm curious how others come up with a time and say i want to do it in this time. Do you decide what pace you can do first or do you quietly pick a time in your head based on experience and then work out a time based on that.... What goes through your head? In this case for me. I know what the official cut off time is, but i've made up my own pretend cut off time, that's when I want to finish if it goes wrong i'll carry on and finish hopefully by the official time, but i'm curious how others come up with their plans.

so this is the waffle that I was first going to ask.... But i'm not asking just showing how my brain works and wondering how everyone else does it

I know you start off usually on the very conservative side.  But if you are setting yourself a goal time would you plan for a slow but evenly paced race, or would you plan i'll try to do x at this speed, then y at 2nd speed, then z at crawl speed? 

I'm just after other peoples way of doing these things being nosey / seeing what seems to work the best.

The reason i'm asking is i'm doing 'The Wall' yes I know it's over priced, but it looks fun, so I've paid for it, around £115 so yep expensive, but hey it was my choice. This isn't about the cost of ultras ..... sorry back on point.....

So it's 111 KM. It begins at 7 am and yes you can take until the next morning 9am i think so 26 hours. But, my unofficial target time i've set myself is to finish by midnight which is 17 hours.

So I have come up with three theories on running it.....  and was wondering if any of the tree make any realistic sense or if i'm talking utter bollox and should just STFU and just see what happens on the day

Plan 1: I starting thinking about it as running around a marathon at Marathon plus 30-45 minutes speed, and then mentally splitting what is left into three 20 odd km chunks with planned speeds for each of them, slowing down a minute per km for each of these 20 odd km chunks, no idea if i'd be able to keep these up, but that was my first hair brained theory.

Plan 2: The second plan was well 7.2km per hour would get me there in 15.5 hours so gives me an hour and a half to play with. 7.2km If I tried run walk would be 48/12 per hour and would just be 8 minute per km for the running chunks, and marching at 10min km for the walking section.

Plan 3: Similar to plan 2, Go out a bit quicker around 8 to 8.5km per hour know i'll be tired a bit quicker than with Plan 2, but i'd have more time in the bag to slow down and still get there in my arbitrary goal time.

Plan 4: Plan to get to half way in say 8 hours feeling as rested as possible, and go from there winging it.

 

 

08/05/2014 at 14:15

BT - you're talking utter bollox and should STFU !!!!!!

I cant really offer your any useful advice as I haven't yet run my first ultra but I will be running a 50km in June. I, too, am having similar thoughts at the moment and I've come up with this.

My marathon pace is 8:18mm and for some reason I have decided that my 'general' pace for the 50km is going to be 9:30 - 10:00mm. In the first half of the race there is a drag that lasts for about 3 miles and I have decided I am going to run this. So, my plan is to get to half way in around  2.5 hours. In the second half of the race there are 3 climbs, 2 of which I completed in a training run last week. They are hard, steep and rocky so I think I will be walking up all of them at an estimate of 20:00mm. So, if I can maintain my pace on the rest of the route I reckon I will come in around 6:00 hours and that is including 30 minutes for anything that might occur en route.

I have based my timings on my one and only marathon which was Manchester last month in which I finished in 3:38.

I expect I am being very niaive as I am expecting the race to go according to plan i.e. I have not taken into account things like toilet breaks, stopping at checkpoints, eating and completely blowing up and having to slow down.But, it's my first ultra so I guess I'm going to learn a lot and possibly the hard way.

Any thoughts and feedback on my plan would also be very appreciated.

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