Hello folks, thanks for the kind words. Just passing through.
I was wondering where I could find 'intelligent' debate on this issue, without recourse to silly name calling and mindless point scoring and have read through the thread and am not surprised to have found that sort of intelligent debate here (more or less).
News from Corinth. After 20 years living in Northumberland I've moved to Manchester and have started running again! Which is the main reason I'm here. Signed up for a couple of 10ks, my first in 5 years.
Anyway, the debate. I was torn between supporting the UK's attempt to remain in the corrupt, not very democratic, rich man's social club of the European Union or the 'leave' movement who did not seem to have a plan beyond telling a pack of lies to gain political advantage in the Tory leadership contest. Certainly, no plan for what happens after in the event of a leave vote. I was convinced that that old chancer Boris expected to lose, as did Gove, the other heavyweight careerist. You only had to look at their faces the day after the leave vote was called to realise this.
I eventually stuck my fingers down my throat and voted to stay in the EU. For two reasons.
1. Like it or not globalisation is not going to go away, neither will the free movement of labour - the UK needs immigration and immigrants to keep the economy strong (even most of the leavers know this). Running a campaign to leave the EU on immigration was disingenuous 'dog whistle' politics of the worst kind. If you're going to have the free movement of capital, you have to have the free movement of people. I predict that immigration will not fall, there will be no caps on immigration beyond what we already have other than a flimsy points system that most immigrants we already import would pass anyway... unless the leavers wish to commit economic suicide.
2. I could never support any campaign with Farage as a leading figurehead. He's an unreconstructed racist knobhead of the first order. With Nigel, what you see is what you get - he's a racist of the kind you'll find propping up most golf club bars up and down the land. He proved that with his poster and now he's boosted by electoral success, you're going to see the real Nigel much more in evidence.
So, I became a reluctant pro EU remain supporter 60/40...
Now, I'm going to sit back and try to enjoy the chaos as the UK disintegrates - I hope nobody gets hurt. As someone much cleverer than me said "Britain had a headache and to cure it has shot itself in the foot"
All is not lost for the 'Remain' camp. Cameron, who really should shoulder the blame for this unnecessary debacle, did one canny thing - he resigned and left the incoming Tory leader to trigger 'Article 50'.
The timeline for our departure from the EU cannot begin until 'Article 50' is put into operation. This is a poisoned chalice that Cameron has passed to his successor, who is likely to be Boris Johnson.
I honestly don't imagine Johnson having the bollocks to trigger the departure countdown, I'm pretty much convinced that he doesn't want to and remember Parliament has to ratify his decision with a vote.
The European Parliament cannot force the UK to trigger 'Article 50' and the UK Government will not be in any hurry to start the clock on departure, knowing that it would consign the UK to irrevocable departure.
I'm pretty much convinced there'll be a long period of stalemate, where like Schrödinger's Cat being both 'alive' and 'dead' at the same time - we'll be both 'in' and 'out' of Europe for a couple of years until a further referendum confirms our status within...
Then again, I've always been a hopeless optimist and am still waiting for the train set my dad promised me for my 11th birthday
There are instances of allied war crimes that went unpunished, you win you're right, you lose you're in the dock.
To be fair, I think there were probably quite a few Nazi war crimes that also slipped though the net amid the general barbarity.
One of the reasons the prosecution at Nuremberg succeeded was the meticulous record keeping in the concentration camps. Ad hoc atrocities tend to be harder to prove and take much longer to do so (look at the former Yugoslavia).
The occupying powers did more than turn a blind eye to Nazi atrocities and systematic brutalisation of the population - they actively recruited the Nazi state machinery to run Germany post war. Yeah, the figurehead politicians and architects of the Nazi regime were put on trial - but the nuts and bolt bureaucrats were co-opted by the occupying powers to continue running things.
The same people who ran the railways to the death camps, the logistics of mass murder, the 'banality of evil' as Hannah Arendt named it - ran Germany post war. There was a programe of de-nazification but practical necessity quite often trumped morality.
Not to mention the wholesale transfer of the V2 rocket programme (ran on slave labour - expected life span of a slave - 6 weeks) to NASA/ Strategic Missile Air Command. In a very real sense if it wasn't for the Nazis we might not have made it to the moon by the 1960s! (if we actually did - for the conspiricy theorists)