My Forum

DT, I like Daniels' definition best, which is something like "the pace you could maintain for about an hour". That's HMP for elites, but it's more like 10 mile pace for me and you.

I do these runs by HR, which works really well for me. My average HR in both 10 mile races I've done was 185 (92.5% of max).

So, for your classic 20 minute threshold run I try and start around 175bpm and end aroung 180 bpm. That's less than my 10 mile average, but obviously heart rate climbs throughout the race and it matches quite closely what I experience in the first few miles.

"do a 5k and if you are 15-19 mins, deduct 25-30 secs from your m/m pace,"

That ends up being 6:00 - 6:05 per mile for me. Which is pretty much what I get when running to HR, so not a bad calculation for me at least.


"I lso read that the faster you are the more you deduct from your pace. Therefore if you are 20-24 mins the drop between your m/m pace to LT pce is less. The philosophy being that the faster you are the more dangerous it is in terms of injury to routinely push yourself at that pace"

I agree with the conclusion, but not the reasoning. The reason you should drop less from your 5k pace if you're slower is that slower people are racing 5k at closer to their lactate threshold. Remember, when thinking about physiological thresholds, it is *intensity* rather than pace that we should consider. Imagine an extreme example of a runner who takes an hour to complete a 5k - they would be running 5k at their lactate threshold, so would need to deduct zero seconds.

Please be careful with that cough and seek some medical advice. It's my understanding that you can do yourself damage training with certain types of illnesses.

DT, I just believe (based on what I've read and my personal experience) that LT is best raised by training at or below that intensity.

And raising LT will help with your (faster than LT) 10k pace because, by definition, by raising LT you delay lactate accumulation until you're running at a faster pace than previously.

Of course, if you're training for a 10k, then doing some running at 10k pace is very important. But I still don't think it's best for training LT.

If you find the pace too easy, try 2 x ( 3 x 1 mile; 1' recovery); 15' recovery, with the mile reps run at threshold. If you don't find that a tough session, then I'd say the pace estimate is wrong.

Phil, unfortunately I can't really get all that excited about road running, although it'd be preferable to just starting base training for next year! I was also thinking about maybe training towards an indoor track season in Jan/Feb. Good to see you're getting back into the swing.

Kelly, I've been thinking about dumping the HRM for a little while since I am obsessing over it a bit at the moment. It is a very accurate indicator of fitness though.

Mr V, it sounds like you would just need a few 1500-paced session to get shifting a bit more. I remember it being a difficult pace to get into the rhythm of when I first started MD training. If I packed things in, I'd just move back into base training: start with a couple of weeks complete rest, then a month of building mileage and strength before starting marathon-style training.

Duck, those 300s are great. I can't see sub-54 will be a problem for you. How comes you're doing a 600 TT before the 100? Surely you won't race as well with that in your legs. Yes, that last 200 of my session was almost flat out. Pretty happy to run that at the end of a hard lactic session though.

To answer your question, things were going very well until I got ill. 17:20 5k in April, 4:48 mile at the start of May, 02:08.8 in the middle of May - all early season PBs. As an example of how bad it is, before getting ill my HR/pace ratio was 132/7:55 and now it's 147/8:15

Bob, I think threshold work is absolutely essential to getting your best 5k/10k time. I also think it's important to push it up from below, so in your case, 10kp would be too fast (although obviously a decent training session). 3 x 1 mile with 1' recovery or just 20' is a great session. These sessions are fairly easy to recovery from as well.

CB, is 12 miles your long run? How did the chocolate pancakes help with fuelling you?

Duck, Bob, CB, Just to explain - my reasoning for thinking of quitting the season is not emotional - it's just that there are only 8 weeks left and if I can't get the training in I know it's just going to be a frustrating struggle to underperform. It would make more sense to rest for a few weeks and let the injury completely heal and start thinking about next year. It's possible I'll suddenly start feeling better though (it has happened before), so I am going to give it a couple of weeks and see what happens. Next year, I'm definitely going to plan on peaking in early June next year rather than late July - it will give me some breathing room if something like this comes up again

literatin, our stripes are very very very very very very dark blue.

Congrats on the parkrun PB, CB.

WJH, I had a bad cold a few weeks ago and still haven't recovered fully - my HR is about 15bpm higher than it should be on easy runs, so try not to read too much into your parkrun today.
Having said that, I'm sulking thanks to a disappointing 800 today. 2:10.4 (compared to 2:08.8 a month ago) despite being matched against similar ability in the race. I'm hoping it's due to the after effects of the cold - or this injury. If things don't pick up in a week or so I'm going to write this season off completely.

Andrew D, start by jogging on the spot, then start moving forward gradually and you can run at any speed (this is also a good trick for anybody who fancies shifting to forefoot running). I think most newcomers don't appreciate that easy runs should be easy.

literatin, it's Croydon. Yours looks a bit bluer.