Latest posts by Big-Bad-Bob

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Overdone it?

Posted: Yesterday at 14:52

Afternoon all.

A sh*te, manic week at work and the first, albeit relatively mild, cold of the winter combined to drain me of time and energy this week. Guess the malaise I was feeling on the morning of the 10k last week wasn't mere hypochondria for once.

Sorry to hear about marrows having to ditch the mara, hope the 5m went ok in what was probably howling wind for MrV, and good MP'ing in tough conditions from McF.

Good running going on elsewhere too and some interesting input from Ric, though yet to be convinced on not needing at least some continuous 'tempo' running. I do agree that whilst I think it can be effective, too much of it is an injury and over-training risk - there has been evidence of that from various forumites since I've been on RW. Perhaps a statement of the bleeding obvious, but guess I'd argue that the trick is to get the balance right, and that it is better to do too little than too much.

As for my running, I'd always intended an easy few days this week after Lincoln anyway and was on plan, including an easy paced long-ish run, until yesterday when it all caught up with me, and had to sub out the planned Lydiard hills session for a short jog at 9m/m pace. Only did that to try to wake myself up, as resting wasn't doing the trick - the jog didn't either.

Slightly better today but procrastination has set in as I look out of the window at early spring doing a convincing impression of foul late autumn.

Overdone it?

Posted: 24/03/2015 at 10:43

More later on usual thread comings and goings, but that's an interesting view, Ric - and one I think I've heard you express before.

As someone with a (perceived at least) short distance bias, and who certainly prefers short, sharp reps to the longer, generically titled continuous 'tempo' runs, I'd jump at the opportunity to can the latter in favour of the former if it was something that I thought would work at distances up to and including 10k.

Obviously, we're all experiments of one, but my own experience over the last 18 months or so suggests that I need something to glue everything together. A brief summary of my 10k experience: -

Winter 2013/4 - Base Period - Upped the miles, ran XC, improved 10k from 42:42 to 40:25.

Spring 2014 - 5 weeks with a focus on LT runs after the 40:25, with one track session, a parkrun and a 2.5m relay leg being the only running faster than race pace. Improved 10k from 40:25 to 39:44.

Summer 2014 - Short, sharp reps up to 1/2 mile, and mostly racing 800m to 5k, with virtually no 'tempo' running. Took 37 seconds off 5k, over a minute off (a soft) 3k time, 25 seconds off Mile, 20 seconds off 1500m, and 12 seconds off 800m between May and September.

Autumn 2014 - Ran a 10k off the back of the above with little specific race prep, and did PB, but only took it down from 39:44 to 39:21 (23 seconds), and after feeling strong to 4 miles or so, I slowed in the last mile or so which was a complete suffer-fest.

Suggests to me that whilst the short reps were brilliant for track racing, still effective for 5k, and certainly what I respond best to overall, there is still something missing for 10k racing.

I've since filled in those blanks with more miles, XC, tempo running, and just a couple of faster than race pace sessions over the winter, and am now down from 39:21 to 38:24 - the latter being a time I didn't have to beast myself to achieve.

Any thoughts?

Speed Training

Posted: 23/03/2015 at 14:12

Another member of the run (mostly) alone, without music, and (occasionally) along a disused railway line club here.

I've never read Bob Glover though, can I be an associate member? 

Barbs - I'd say a bit closer to 30 seconds/mile slower than your 5m best than a full minute would be ideal, though a minute less would still be a decent workout and probably not a bad starting point to build up from.

Overdone it?

Posted: 23/03/2015 at 14:01

Skinny - Yes, I thought 38:24 sounded familiar! If you got to run on a fast, flat course like Lincoln, you'd already have a 37:xx to your name, and it was more the feeling that I'd got a lower 38:xx in me that I was describing, than a specific plan to knock you off your perch. I'm sure your best will be well out of my reach by the time I next run a 10k anyway, and as you say, with competition from Charlie (not to mention Lou and others) coming up on the rails, ever getting back into the top league looks a long shot for me - even if I did switch my focus on to the longer distances.

Look forward to seeing what you can do on Sunday, Mr V. I reckon Muddy might have a stiffer target for the gold cell at the MF5 than your current 28:33.

On the levels of effort, Charlie asked me on Connect what I was getting at by not 'hurting' myself yesterday, and chose to partly answer with a comparison of my 2014 and 2015 Lincoln photos. I think they make the point quite nicely - last year really was tough over that closing kilometre or so...ooooof!

Overdone it?

Posted: 23/03/2015 at 11:12

So, having finally reading back properly...

How's the face plant casualty now, McF - ouch?! Hope you properly shake off your own tumble this week, DT! Decent mileage despite that.

A very encouraging intervals session for Mr V, that's got to be a realistic 5k pace as a minimum surely with that sort of volume? Another great long 'un with an awesome 14@MP from Mace, sub-3 looking very realistic for Skinny, and more good progress from Pete.

How did your lad get on at parkrun, Charlie? Congrats on continuing your streak
there. Just done some stalk, er...scouring, and agree with Skinny's assessment of
your HM PB, madbee - cracking stuff. Seems like you're in a very good place too, McF, though as Pete suggests, perhaps be a little wary of not leaving your strongest efforts in the B races...?

Listen to your physio, marrows - get on the track for some middle-distance action
once the mara is out of your legs. And I'm ranking your speculation on the
possible outcomes of splicing of you and Lit as my favourite post on here for some time! 

Re: Muddy's failed flapjack - sounds like you 'Overdone it?' After all the talk
of 'having the painters in',  hope you managed to get a plasterer in. Big week of miles too, some consolidation sounds a good idea.

Lit - sounds very pleasant over there. Still not very warm over here. 

Overdone it?

Posted: 23/03/2015 at 11:06

Thanks all.

McF - I think Mrs Bob found it easier than her previous, and much slower 10k, and the main problem yesterday was the human traffic she had to negotiate!

Charlie - Yes, much reduced mileage last week, including two days off (Tues/Thurs), the abbreviated session with some sharp stuff in between,and then two short runs Fri/Sat, the first with a reasonably quick mile in, the second with strides, and it seemed to work better than having Race Day -2 off. Goater talks about getting your rest in early in the week and bringing yourself back up for race day once you're feeling fresh - he may have a point.

Lit - 'Nemesis' was McF's word rather than mine, I just remember a conversation with you about potential local rivals (possibly after 2013 Beeston 5?) and Nat's name cropped up at that time. Think it was soon after that she stopped racing. Back on it now though, she ran a 10k PB yesterday I think. My take on the pacing thing is that as a rule of thumb, 6th lady (her) is likely to be getting more things right overall, including pacing, than the blokes placing 100th or so around us, who may well only be as fast due to physical advantages of gender rather than being particularly smart runners.

marrows/Skinny/Pete - Took it a little steady yesterday due to a combination of a little self doubt leading to fears of a blow up (even though I felt sure Rushcliffe was down to the gale that was blowing), and the fact that this was still only a B race for me. I just wanted to get a 10k banker in, and then move on. Focus still very much on the imminent track season, and I didn't want to either injure myself (like last year) or empty the tank too much on a race that wasn't that important to me. I did pick it up in the second half though - 19:15/19:09 for the 5k splits.

Mace - Relegating you would have just been silly anyway as your official time is no reflection of your current fitness! Though doing so was definitely in me yesterday - my feeling is I'd have been close to Skinny's 38:01 at full beans. Will probably have to wait until the autumn to find out though...

Overdone it?

Posted: 22/03/2015 at 21:53

Lincoln 10k

Conflicting emotions going into this one. Training has gone well all winter, racing a bit less so. The morning dawned bright, chilly and calm - ideal really, and although I felt a bit rough, and a calf decided to grumble, I put this down to pre-race hypochondria and put both out of my mind. A big gathering for this one with my wife, sister-in-law, nephew and his girlfriend all running as well, and thus lots of support from the rest of that side of the family.

Interminable queues for the loos delayed the warm up, but I was happy enough with what I got in, the legs felt lively, the morning malaise had passed, and entering the pens, seeing a couple of familiar faces, we waited to get on with it...and waited...and waited...and waited. A 999 call on the course it seems. Grrr.

10 minutes later, finally we're off, and I'm probably a bit far forward. The plan to go off within myself at around 6:15s is immediately out of the window, and I'm sucked into a 5:58 first mile. Ooops. I feel fine, but wary of what happened at Rushcliffe, I let the average pace I'm tracking myself by slowly drift back towards 6:05, and then settle into a rhythm - this is nice. Beep - too nice...6:22 for Mile 2 says the Garmin. Oops again. Right, wake up FFS.

Settling into a rhythm again, but this time keeping a closer eye on pace, there's a nice little group forming round me, and despite a bit of an incline as we head towards the 5k mark, the pace is rock steady at 6:10. A former 'rival' of Lit as one of the leading local ladies down here who seems to currently be on the comeback trail after some time out, comes past. She's likely to be a far smarter runner than me, I'll use her as a pacer rather than constantly referring to the GPS.

6:12 for Mile 3, and through 5k in 19:15 feeling fine - this'll do nicely. Apart from the climb to the cathedral at the end, we're probably at the highest point of the course here, and the next 2 miles are gently downhill, I begin to push on. 6:10 for Mile 4 feeling ruddy marvellous and full of running. Thanks to Nat Teece for the pacing, but she's one of several I ease past in Mile 5 - 6:04, and 30:45 at 5 Miles. Since Mile 2 the average pace has never wavered outside of a tight range of 6:09 to 6:11, and it currently reads 6:09. Time for the final climb, and I remember how much this hurt last year - do I want to hurt myself like that again...?

I barely ran in anger for 6 weeks afterwards, I'm happy with the time I'm heading for, so decide I'll just try to keep my rhythm and rather than pick up pace, will wait until average pace drops below 6:10/mile then abandon reference to the Garmin, and just push on without ragging myself from there. At this point last year we were into the teeth of a strong southerly, and as folk were blowing up spectacularly all round me, the cacophony of the crowds combined with the effort I was pouring on had made me giddy. Today I'm able to lap up the atmosphere, and whilst I'm working hard, am enjoying what has been a cruise from first mile to last.

There's the finish line, a final pick up of pace, across the line and stop the watch. Right, let's have a look...38:25...almost a minute off the PB - later revised down to 38:24 on the chip - again, that will do nicely.

A winter's training finally sees some tangible reward, and although it will have to wait for another day, I'm confident there's plenty more in the tank.

A 5 minute PB for Mrs BBB who is now well down into 53:xx territory, and good debuts for the other 3 too. Massive roast in the pub was a good day.<

Overdone it?

Posted: 22/03/2015 at 21:46

Great stuff, McF! Good running Skinny & Pete, proper catch up with everyone else tomorrow.

Lincoln report coming up...

Overdone it?

Posted: 22/03/2015 at 12:47
Nice work Madbee, Charlie & Tommy.

Successful outing here too running within myself to play it safe after Rushcliffe. More later...

Overdone it?

Posted: 18/03/2015 at 16:47

Hello all - thanks for the input, all of which was read, digested...although in the absence of consensus (both between ourselves and Messrs Pfitz and McM) ultimately ignored! Part of the problem was with it being a run at lunch, time was of the essence, so couldn't really do much more than a couple of miles' volume. I'd bagged my 8 x 1k confidence builder last week, wanted to vary my usual pre-10k 5 x 800m session just to get away from something which didn't work for Rushcliffe (albeit that was p'raps weather related) and also sharpen up a bit, as I've realised that small doses of quick reps always seem to return a swift, positive effect on my running.

Any road 400/600/800/800/600/400 at 3k, 5k, 10k on the way up and back down it was, all off 60 seconds, and although the route was a bit more undulating than I'd anticipated, it came out quite nicely. Bar a slight miss on the final 3k pace due to a tight, muddy corner and perhaps a bit of tree cover skewing the GPS, all other paces hit, and the 800s came in at target 10k pace with only a couple of brief glances at the Garmin and no pace adjustment required, so I'm happy enough with that. Understood the points about not doing anything too hard, but with less than 3 mins running @ 3k pace, just over 4 mins @ 5k pace, and just over 6 mins @ 10k pace it really wasn't a hard session. Nicely invigorated now, and easy into Sunday.

Muddy - On your question, my answer would be that why would you change anything at all at the moment when you're making seemingly inexorable progress with what you're already doing? If it ain't broke, why fix it? No point being greedy and potentially risking fatigue, niggles and injury by changing something that self-evidently doesn't need changing at this stage. I also share your wariness at the possible parkrun AND 5m race in the week preceeding your next target 10k! Saw your hilly run on Connect, nicely done. The fact that you're hitting those paces on a hilly route 'taking it steady' just makes me want to sob however.

Cracking pyramid of your own, Mr V - does sound like a final peaking session though!

And an awesome 15m from you, Mace. I've got no intention of running a marathon any time soon (ever), but might give marathon training courtesy of P&D a go during my next winter base period. The results it's producing for all of you doing it are outstanding.

Marrows - The suspected cuboid problem cleared swiftly from my first foot with reduced mileage, but was a bit more stubborn in the second. The latter came just before some planned downtime anyway, though a near complete break of just 3m one week had no positive effect, and it wasn't until I started running again (building the mileage slowly) that it eased and then finally skedaddled.

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