TippTop


Latest posts by TippTop

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Injury, marathon in 8 months :(

Posted: 29/01/2015 at 16:00

The leg length discrepancy is most likely due to the pelvic tilt. I had similar which I started seeing a chiropractor for treatment on last year and was able to train through treatment (though it was painful occasionally).

So find yourself a good practitioner and yes, you've got plenty of time to get corrected and fully fit for NY..

Sub 3

Posted: 29/01/2015 at 14:55

Lev_ - I'll be picking your brains when you return I've just started on core/proprioception work, so that should hopefully offset some of the potential issues from the unevenness of the surface. Enjoy the last two weeks and recover/heal well.

CW - I know you do progressive runs, but I was specifically referring to the surge runs.

So what's the decision then Tmoth?

Sub 3

Posted: 29/01/2015 at 11:21

CW - it sounds like you did need an occasional over-distance before then, but I'd still like to see how you would react to something like the surge long runs.

That's it Dan. I think with stuff like this you need to compare like with like. I do have some other related thoughts on training/long runs/speedwork in respect of muscle fibres based on some stuff I've read over the years that may fit with your situation of good speed, good endurance, but a bit of a gap in the middle, but they're only theories so I need to find somebody to test them on

Tmoth - how long between marathon and ultra?

CD - you missed Dan using the 'horses for courses' phrase. We really should have a bingo book of phrases for here though!

Padams - sounds like the same article I read recently, but can't remember where I came across it.

Nice mlr ON7, and yes, no pressure on me now for Berlin! I'm looking forward to jumping into some of the legendary fartlek sessions and getting whupped by proper runners

Sub 3

Posted: 28/01/2015 at 20:09

Well remembered TR (though was actually 23m). It's all about evolution; I don't think anybody can constantly do the same training throughout the years (to a certain extent, simply repeating a successful campaign will still bring improvements, but the returns on that are finite and diminishing over time) as the load doesn't change and without a (different) stimulus you run the risk of stagnating. Of course I could just be talking b0ll0cks

Anyway, it turns out my birthday present from the ex-Mrs TT (for want of a better description) and my kids was a long while in the planning and I will be spending 4 weeks altitude training in Kenya during August - perfectly timed for Berlin

To say I'm a touch excited is an understatement!

Sub 3

Posted: 28/01/2015 at 11:38

Flipping 'eck DrD. Stunning. I'll have some of whatever you're on

Tmoth - in which case I would strongly recommend dropping your second longer run down to 16 (tops). Make your training appropriate to the distance.

Nice sessions PP, Padams and RS78!

Padams - that's it exactly. A run of 2:15 or less (by the time I do the surge runs) means I get a good workout, tick the long run box, but the less time on feet means quicker recovery for more important (for me) workouts later in the week. We touched on something similar briefly before where both you and I felt a slow long run in the legs the next day more than a quicker one. I think it was last year when we were talking about first long runs back, etc.

Dan - beginners will, generally be lacking in endurance and it will therefore be of use to them to go a bit longer so that would skew the argument in favour of longer runs if you take them into consideration. It's akin to saying everybody slows down so you should aim to run a positive split. I think once you reach a certain level of fitness you'll understand if endurance is something you have naturally or not and that's where (in my mind) the split can occur. Plus the overall volume and structure needs to be a consideration too. 
In my case, for example, across a standard week (where I don't have a rest day - I'll average one a fortnight as that will be when I have the kids Saturday night/Sunday morning) the 20m will be backed up with 2 x very easy 12-16m (giving me another 90mins-2hrs on feet for each), a track session totalling 12-17m, another, lighter track session of 10-12m, and another 2 runs of 10m+, in addition to a clutch of 5-6m across the week, so I don't see that adding an extra 20mins or so to my long run will do much other than tire me a bit more and impact the track sessions.

ON7 - it's hard to say. Do you think you have natural endurance or not? To reduce my ramble above to Dan, to a more succinct answer, it depends on the structure of the rest of your week and if you feel it will be beneficial?

Sub 3

Posted: 27/01/2015 at 22:02

Tmoth - I don't see an issue with back to back longer runs per say, but if I were going to do it I would have the effort in the first one and jog the second one - point in hand; today I ran a very easy 90mins after yesterday's long. That will, over the coming weeks build up to around 2 hours (still very easy, with any efforts in the first run). Really the question of whether back to back long(er) runs are a good idea comes down to what your main aim for the spring is? If the marathon is the focus, then maybe reduce the second longer one down to around 16 and see how that feels.
My comments on your running were solely around playing catch-up as it is asking for trouble.

Sounds nice PP The last week or so here have seen a cracking vegetable curry, pasta with chargrilled chicken/veg and a mustard based sauce, and a slightly tweaked chilli. The kale makes a reappearance on Sunday to go with some liver I'm going to have a crack at making my own pate soon too!

ThR - A 23m in target race time is a very solid long run; I always had the idea in my head that if that felt comfortable I was in good shape. Cheers for the couscous tips. I've got some Quinoa to use soon as well, so I'll let you know when I get around to it

Ok, long runs, some basic thoughts. I think whether it is necessary or not to do longer long runs simply comes down to what type of runner you are. I've always had naturally good endurance (my first run was 2m and I thought I was going to have a heart attack - by week 4 I broke 50m).

What I have realised over the last few campaigns is that the extra few miles in long runs don't make much of a difference, if any, on the endurance front (for me), but by doing the few less my legs are a bit fresher and I can work in the 10k-HM range more which seems to give me a much better return on investment.

I think if natural endurance is an issue for you there is a case for longer long runs, but if you don't tend to fade late on in marathons then I'd suggest you'd be better putting your effort to other avenues that will yield more improvement.

Sub 3

Posted: 27/01/2015 at 16:37
CharlieW wrote (see)

TT -- you're just goading me now with your max 20M (nice one though)! Glad Al is a full-distance ally (as is Marigoldof course, always did his full training marathon about 5 weeks out, even before his ultra days). 

CW - I'm thinking of dropping my long runs to 30km as a lot of countries who work in metric use that as their round number........ Sorry, couldn't resist (but they do apparently. I have done full distance ones before, including the time-trial type ones (similar to what Marigold does), as far back as '09. Joking aside, I do have a theory on it all (i.e. why I'm better off with 20s, rather than 23s or higher).

Al_P - I'm doing the 10m @ Bramley. I ran 55:08 last year on a strained hip flexor with a slight tear in one of my glutes as well (though it was probably the race that done that). I'll be doing well if I'm anywhere near that given current fitness, but it presents a sporting target

Very nice mileage DrD.

I've got some couscous awaiting usage PP (getting back into my cooking/experimenting again), so let me know how it turns out

Sub 3

Posted: 27/01/2015 at 10:07

Tmoth - if you thought your plan was good enough beforehand then don't mess around with it and leave it as is. You've seen the other responses basically saying the same. I'm very much a believer (nowadays) that what's gone is gone - of course that's different to tweaking a plan to address something that you find you need along the way, but that's a different story.

Nice SL!

Al_P - the plan is to have another 2 progressive ones (next 2 weeks). I'd like to think I'll be at least 5 minutes faster by week 3 for the same effort, but we'll see. After that in terms of planned longer runs there are 3 races (1 x 10m, 2 x HM, so totally 16-20m), 2 with a chunk at MP+30s, and 4 surge ones (I'm looking forward to those! ).

SB - loads of time then to get the pace where you want it.

Sub 3

Posted: 26/01/2015 at 22:48

Tmoth - don't worry about catching up; that way injury and niggles lie. What's gone is gone.

You're in good hands then CC82. Nice one

Sub 3

Posted: 26/01/2015 at 21:17

lol TR. I'm easily confused. I'd probably end up wearing my work clothes climbing into the pool

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