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P&D autumn marathon 2016

Posted: Yesterday at 21:59

Ramjet, thanks for sharing your experiences. I think at this point I may just do 3 wks on and simply make the 4th week easy (with strides as you say, which is what I usually do). I won't try to get those missed quality sessions back but instead just pick up the following week as listed on the schedule. This never seemed to hurt in my previous builds so will put some faith that this will serve me well. The other thing I find somewhat odd is that the quality sessions are so close together (Tue and Thurs). Normally I'd throw 2 easy days between those sessions but so far I seem to be coping well. Overall, I'm liking the new elements. Was time for a change I suppose.

Good luck as you get ready for your next marathon. And smoking 5K result!

P&D autumn marathon 2016

Posted: 28/07/2016 at 16:34

Ramjet, I'm dropping in to see if you can give some comments on the Hanson plan? I normally live over on the sub3:15 thread but saw you have been using Hanson recently with some good success. I have normally done more of a HADD approach and shifted over to the Hanson plan this cycle (training for an Oct Marathon). I found a copy of the 60-80 mile plan online and have been following. But I noticed that there is not a single cutback week. I'm 43 and pretty much know how things will end if I don't step back every (at least) 3rd week. How have you dealt with this previously (did you take cutbacks? And if so, how often?).

My previous marathon builds have featured weeks of about 65-75 miles. Quality sessions were a 13 mile run Mon/Thurs with 10 of the miles at subLT (aka MP-10 sec). Then a LR of 18-22 and all the rest of the days easy running. Strides 1 or 2 times per week. I'm hoping that dropping one subLT session and adding the VO2 max intervals (aka the Hanson method) will get me over a plateau I've been on recently (especially considering that I have done zero V02 max stuff since returning to running about 6 years ago). Anyway, thanks for any advice you can give about this plan and what you've learned along the way.

For the rest of you P&Ders, I attempted P&D once, but it resulted in injury (but that was several years ago so probably was too much too soon!). But am always impressed by the performances this group churns out. And have read the book as it has some great info.

Sub 3h15

Posted: 26/07/2016 at 22:02

Long absence again...life's been so hectic it's been hard to get on here regularly. But great racing to many of you recently. SJ, gritty performance to cover all those miles on foot when your body wanted none of it. Seems you smashed the phases I and II and given new hip you'd surely have smashed phase III. Sorry things have gotten so problematic. Hoping for better luck in your next venture (but 40 miles ?). Moof, horrible, horrible news after all that dedication and effort. Find some other way to use that fitness.

Leslie, you are an interval machine! Nice wheeling recently. I am now 3 wks into the Hanson's plan so have accordingly done 3 interval sessions myself (wk 1, 6 x 800 w/400 jog recovery; wk 2, 12 x 400 w/200 jog recovery; wk 3/today, 5 x 1K w/400 job recovery; all done at 5K pace which has worked out to about 1:31 400 M; 3:04 800; and 3:57 today for 1Ks). Today felt very strong vs the earlier sessions so perhaps am starting to adapt. HR on all other runs has dropped like a rock too this week. Long runs in place now too (18-19 milers and comfy). Overall liking this plan. Lorenzo, you asked what it was like. An average week would be 8M Monday, interval session as per above (or other iterations upcoming) Tuesday (10-11 miles total), Wed, 6 miles, Thursday 8-10 miles at MP (14 total), Friday 8M, Sat. 6M, Sunday 18-20M. Also have strides thrown in Monday and Saturday. One quirk is that this 20 week plan has no cutback until taper. So I'm doing 3 on and imposing my own cutback. Mileage ranges from 60-80 (but I will take 1 day off each week so more like 60-70ish). Some weeks will also replace the midweek MP miles with a progression 10M ending at half marathon pace and then throwing the MP miles into the LR on weekend. I like it because it is very much what I have been doing but I drop a subLT (aka MP) session for a V02 max interval session, which I believe I have needed for quite some time.

Hope everyone is doing well!

Sub 3h15

Posted: 11/07/2016 at 19:20

OO, blazing parkrun!

Lorenzo, good motoring in the 1500 as well!

Gul, I think you have a crappy HR strap. What watch do you pair it with? If it's a garmin, I can send you a link to a strap the never does what you are seeing. And you'll easily get at least a year's life out of it before it may start behaving a wonky w/readings (and for $30 USD, a reasonable yearly expense). I'd only be concerned about those spikes (e.g. not due to bad strap) if you are also feeling your heart race at the same time. Otherwise, totally bogus as each of us would certainly know when we'd gotten to max HR!

So Leslie, finally started my faster work! Am going to follow the Hanson 61-80 mile plan (I'm jumping in at week 7 of 20). Today was 3 mile warm up, then 6 x 800 at 5K pace w/400 jog recoveries, then 3 miles cool down. First 800 a bit fast (2:59), but then settled in at 3:08 for last 5. the last 3 definitely felt like more effort needed to maintain, but I think that's to be expected. These are my first intervals since 2011. Could tell I was out of my comfort zone (a prime indicator I need to continue!). Anyway, I'm in the water now so will continue on. My other quality work each week will be a 8-10 mile MP run (aka subLT). So still keeping one of my normal sessions but adding in the speed for the other. Fun to mix it a up a bit. Next week will be 12 x 400...

Back still tweaky but heel flared up (getting some numbness in foot again). Fizz visits on calendar.

Sub 3h15

Posted: 04/07/2016 at 20:54

Good racing Jools and Poacher. Glad to hear the calf is better J.

Good mileage at the half year mark everyone. I managed 217 miles in June and 1300 through June. 73 miles the past 7 days so think I'm finally adjusting to higher volume again. Back still touchy though.

On vacation this week so lots of sun and grilling. And a cutback week so just easy runs.

Sub 3h15

Posted: 29/06/2016 at 23:50

GD, I also think some slower stuff could be in order. I run similar marathon times to you and I only get at 7 m/m or faster at most 2X per week. Everything else is between 8:30 and 9 m/m. I would fall apart with that much quality. You must have good genes! Do you feel pretty knackered all week long or do usually have good energy? Perhaps your true easy pace is around mid7 minute miles? I would wonder whether just 2 fast sessions with slower ones in between would leave you fresher to maybe push even harder on the quality day?

Need to get out yet today but looking for a window between rain storms.

Sub 3h15

Posted: 29/06/2016 at 00:31

So I'm not the only one! Thanks Jools, and glad you are sorted on the personal front. Hope the calf is a very temporary setback.

Gul, I think 2 quality sessions per week would be plenty. What are you thinking they will be? I have been doing 70 minutes at say HR 160-165 x 2 per week as my main sessions...then a LR and the rest easy miles but also added strides to 1 or 2 of the easy runs per week. Now I'm wondering about getting the 70 minute subLT sessions comfy again and then dropping 1 and replacing with a VO2 max session instead, which I've completely missed out on. That may be my next marathon schedule (which may just be the Hanson's method so need to read more about this).

Today got my arse kicked (Fizz had me doing lots of glute stuff) then a 12 M easy paced run in very hot/humid sauna-like conditions. Think I got my backside firing for good portions. Interesting/frustrating trying to figure out how to get those muscles to work.

Sub 3h15

Posted: 27/06/2016 at 13:56

OO, I've been running seriously about 5-6 years now so yes a long time to discover this. But I've no coach or anyone really that advises me. I think my issue is larger than just a tight back. My left hip is weak and then right one tends to dominate. The Fizz team has been working with me on this as I used to get lower leg injuries on the weak side frequently. Maybe I'm using the glutes some but just not enough (her comments may not have been as black or white as she made them sound). Anyway, something to work towards.

Gul, I feel like you got cut off in mid thought

Sub 3h15

Posted: 27/06/2016 at 03:40

Badbark, utterly amazing! Congrats on a once in a lifetime type of win! You continue to amaze. Recover well (and hope you are still in relatively good shape down below!).

Gul, I see you are getting all the toothpaste lately. This may pay big dividends to you. I wouldn't worry about 9 m/m at all. Are you planning to mix some strides and work sessions back in now? I think that once you can go out (on a reasonably flat course on a "non" hot day and maintain a steady HR/Pace for 10-13 miles you are ready for adding in some of the subLT runs (or whatever type of quality you are envisioning). Do the slow runs feel more comfy lately or do they feel unnatural/uncomfortable? I can't remember if they ever did or not...

SJ, epic week on the bike. Was feeling the sun and wind as I pictured your rides.

Fishy, nice racing and even better news to hear about your hip. Hope all keeps moving in this good direction.

Last week was crushed at work, but it paid out w/2 small grants coming into the lab. was a strange training week as did 2 subLTs and no other running through Friday...then got some easier miles over the weekend. Looks like another 200 miles or so for June so hanging in there. Getting used to the heat.

My fizz has been looking at my running because of my back. Well, back seems sorted now but she says I'm not using my glutes much at all when I run. So her solution has been to have me do lots of glute strengthening stuff and dynamic running moves to train me to use them. She says imagine what you could do if you used your a$$ Probably more evidence that I could use a coach if for nothing else just technique adjustments.

Sub 3h15

Posted: 17/06/2016 at 12:52

Gul, glad to hear you are squeezing from the bottom! You may naturally progress to a point where those slow miles feel really good sandwiched around 2 quality sessions and a LR. 

2 days ago I did a subLT session in heart of a very sunny/hot day. Failure on all fronts (got a little heat sickness that lingered plus my claytons, which I thought I'd broken in enough to skip blisters, gave me blisters!). Yesterday did an easy 10M at dusk and they were gentle and blissfully cool. Ahhhh.

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